Talk:Sith

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Article milestones Date Process Result 15 October 2006 Featured article candidate Failure 18 November 2006 Failed featured article candidate
Current status: Failed featured article candidate

Contents 1 Structural Revision 1.1 Move to Sith Order 1.2 Move History to separate page? 2 Post-NJO Sith source? 3 Code 4 Ancient Sith 5 Main Picture 6 Ranks? 7 First landing 8 Philosophy 9 Sith Organisations 10 Empathy quote 11 Behind the Scenes 12 Copy Editing 13 what was wrong with what i added? 14 Sith (species) Homeworld 15 Move 16 Changes 17 Dark Acolyte 18 Whats the source for this information? 19 Killik Sith Lord 20 Sith Names 21 Adding for behind the scenes 22 Etymology of the name Sith

[edit] Structural Revision

I hate the way the Dark Lords and generic Sith are organised on this page... does anyone care if I do a major reorganisation, dumping, among other things, the chronological listings? QuentinGeorge 06:46, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

• It might be good to do it on a temp page first, and then post a link for the community to see, rather than making a massive, one time change. --SparqMan 06:50, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move to Sith Order

Should we move this over to Sith Order to better distinguish it from the Sith race? -- SFH 17:44, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)

• I agree, howver this would mean that Jedi should be moved to Jedi Order. Jasca Ducato 18:54, 23 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • No, there is no Jedi race, so it doesn't matter. - Alpha Fire 21:22, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I too disagree. This article is about the Sith, in general, not one of the three Sith orders. In fact, Sith Order should be taken out of the intro section and replaced by Sith. On another note, I am considering making Sith Order a disabmiguity page due to the fact that its redirect does not really make sense anymore. The page would list the Brotherhood of Darkness, Brotherhood of the Sith, and Sith Order (Bane). Thoughts? --Sentry 04:18, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Definitely not. In fact, there shouldn't even be a "Sith Order (Bane)" because Palpatine makes it clear in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader that the Sith Order died on Ruusan, and ever since Bane and his descendents are something else. Kuralyov 04:24, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
      • At this point, I am not even sure there ever was a group that called themselves the Sith Order. Maybe its just fanon...--Sentry 04:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move History to separate page?

It seems as though this article is one big history lesson, with no mention of the Sith's practices, beliefs, or any other information (other than the Code at the top). How would everyone feel about moving the history to a separate page? The main Sith page could then hold more information on who the Sith were and what they did. This would also be consistent with the Jedi History page, which remains a separate page from the Jedi Order. --Culix 04:07, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)

• I agree. Both this and the Jedi page as severely lacking on actual 'examinations of the order. QuentinGeorge 06:51, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)
• Done. Now we can begin refining the history page separately. --Culix 19:54, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Post-NJO Sith source?

• "Following the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, however, Jedi Knight Kyle Katarn encountered a Force-strong Yuuzhan Vong female in the mysterious Cloak of the Sith region of the galaxy, where it was rumored that post-Palpatine Sith still lived. Powerful though she was, Kyle sensed an even darker hand behind her training. Apparently, this Yuuzhan Vong had a Master . . ."

From this article. Is there a source for this? 'Cause it smells like fanon. --Imp 02:07, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)

• That's from the Wizard's of the Coast website. The Dark Forces articles. -- 63.245.159.27
  • By golly, it is. --Imp 02:29, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)

It's not Fanon. The Yuuzhan Vong's master was Luyima. Read the LEGACY OF THE FORCE SERIES Darth Brutus09 01:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Code

Is the last line of the Sith Code "The Force shall free me", ot is it "The Force shall set me Free"? User:SFH

• I think it's "free me". --Master Starkeiller 01:42, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)
• In KOTOR it's "Set me free". User:Darthnemesis555

Do we have any sources for where the Code actually originated from? Was it invented by Xendor or perhaps compiled over time? --Culix 06:23, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)

• Definately not Xendor, as he was never a Sith Lord. QuentinGeorge 08:24, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • That doesn't mean he couldn't have invented the code. It might have originally been a Dark Jedi code that was slowly absolved by the Sith. I think the chances of it being created by Xendor are pretty high. Jasca Ducato 15:36, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
• I agree with Jasca. While he may not have formed it, it may have been partially based on his meditations. As for the source, this code comes from KOTOR. -- SFH 06:43, 6 Nov 2005 (UTC)
• Sorry, maybe I didn't phrase my question correctly. I realize that the code showed up in KOTOR IRL, but I meant to ask if we had any in universe mention of who thought it up. Perhaps nothing official has ever been said? --Culix 06:16, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
• Oh. No, nothing in universe has been said. -- SFH 15:10, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • Err, not that i know off. Sorry. Jasca Ducato 19:54, 9 Nov 2005 (UTC)

• Um, there's a different Sith Code out there.

There is no fear, there is power. There is no death, there is immortality. There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness. I know no fear, But rather I instill it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds. I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate. All the Universe bows before me. I pledge myself to the Darkness. For I have found true life, In the death of the light.

Shouldn't this be included? I mean, it is the code from Darth Bane on. -Hitokiri Akins

• Provide a source before this is added, please. QuentinGeorge 05:00, 8 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that KOTOR is the source. - Angel Blue 451 21:36, 8 Dec 2005 (UTC)

• No, it's not. I've played through both KOTOR games countless times, and the only Sith Code mentioned in them is the one that's already in this article.

[edit] Ancient Sith

How can Tulak Hord have lived in the same era as Ajunta Pall if Hord was a lightsaber duelist? Not only had the lightsaber not been invented yet, but the Sith wouldn't come to use it until after the Great Hyperspace War. I don't see how Hord could have reigned anytime but after Ludo Kressh.

• Since we can only assume when he lived at this point, I moved him to "Others". --Master Starkeiller 16:31, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Also, shouldn't King Adas be on the list somewhere? Lieutenant Gerard 16:22, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

• If he lived 16.000 BBY, he should be under the "Ancient Sith" section. I put him there. --Master Starkeiller 16:32, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

• The Lightsaber was invented before the time of Ajunta Pall, sometime just after the Jedi formed.

[edit] Main Picture

Anyone opposed to me adding this image as the main picture?--Knightfall

• Yeah, me. It's awful. We have a pic showing the same thing where Sidious and Vader look much better. No, absolutely not. Without the tweaking to make Hayden taller, Vader looks LAME. --Master Starkeiller 18:56, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • No problem. Just figured I'd ask. Thanks for the reply. --Knightfall 19:34, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
    • If it weren't for Vader's height, it would be fine... --Master Starkeiller 20:12, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
      • I always thought that pic would be better for this page. I mean, when you say "Sith", what do you first think about?TIEPilot051999 01:48, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
• This may be beating a dead horse, but in regards to what Starkeiller said, doesn't this picture properly represent Vader's height? The tweaking to make Hayden taller was actually IN the suit he wore, it wasn't edited in later...well, at least as far as I know. If thats true, then that would make Vader's height in this picture accurate.--Knightfall 00:54, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • It's because its actually Ryan Kaufman in the suit for the promos, I've heard. QuentinGeorge 02:58, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)
• I prefer this picture, not the current one which is in the article. The only thing I do not like in that pic is that Vader has a blue lightsaber, which does not really represent the tradition of a red blade. - TopAce 11:50, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree with TopAce... the current main picture isin't good enough. I really don't see a problem with the picture presented by Knightfall. I always thought that represented Vader's height in comparision to Palpatine. Geuss I have to watch Return of the Jedi again! -- Maphisto86 13:12, 4 Feb 2006 (UTC)
    • No seriously the picture with the red blades is better. How is it crap!? Im talking to Jasca Duacto. Vader doesen't look that small! The current picture with Anakin (pre-Mustafar) and Palpatine looks...well lame. It just doesen't say "Sith" to me. Sorry guys for beating a dead horse but I need a answer (a mature one, not "you suck!!1!!"). I'll stop changing it if someone gives a good answer. - Maphisto86 8:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Here is a good answer. The picture is crap. Yes i'm sure there are better pictures out there on the internet than the one we currently have but we haven't found them. The one with Vader in the armour would be alright were it not for the fact that he is too short.

Also, if you want to talk to me personally leave a message on my user talk. Thanks Jasca Ducato 13:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah I keep on hearing that Vader is too short. I noticed that he is a little short in the picture although in ROTS and ROTJ Palpatine's head is about shoulder hight to Vader. In the promo picture he is about neck hieght to Vader. Well Im glad that you answered so quickly and concise. In the future if I want to talk to you or another user I will do so directly. P.S. I apologise if my last comment sounded like a challenge or something... :P Maphisto86 9:22, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
• I also perfer this suggested picture. And Image:Vaderemperor.jpg was another Vader-stands-next-to-Palpy pic, and I dont see that much height difference with this suggested one. Darth Kevinmhk 09:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Take note of the angle the picture is from. It could well provide a false impression. Jasca Ducato 18:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
    • This one, then Image:Construction of the Death Star.jpg. Better angle, huh? Similar result. Darth Kevinmhk 03:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Better angles, yes. But you can see that Vader's slouching. You catch that, huh? Jasca Ducato 10:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
        • Okay, people, calm down. Let's just keep the pic we have now and leave it at that. It's a good pic, and it represents Vader at his most powerful. Remeber that if he hadn't been hacked to bits by Obi-Wan, he'd be able to easliy overthrow Palpatine, and wouldn't have taken anymore orders from him once he realized his true power and potential. -Lord vader1414 22:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ranks?

Where do the ranks for the pre-Bane Sith come from? Lieutenant Gerard 18:40, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)

• The Dark Side Sourcebook. -- SFH 20:15, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • Should Sith Assassin be on the list? Isn't it not a rank so much as a prestige class? Lieutenant Gerard 01:14, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
    • During the Jedi Civil War, it was a rank. --Sentry 07:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First landing

We need to gain some consensus on where the Dark Jedi first discovered the Sith race. Ziost may have been the homeworld, but I think that they first discovered them on Korriban. Any thoughts? -- SFH 20:15, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the KOTOR loading screens say the Dark Jedi landed on Korriban. Lieutenant Gerard 23:26, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Philosophy

Can we get a source for that Philosophy section? Sounds fanony to me, but I think I'll give it a chance. -- SFH 18:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

• Only result from Google is...us. --Fade 18:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sith Organisations

Should we move the list of Sith Orginisations (ie the Naddists, the Brotherhood) to a seperate article making acsess easier. It would also tidy the page up a bit! Jasca Ducato 16:30, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• I only added it becuase this article was far too broad and chaotic. I mean, the term 'Sith' refers to numerous disparate organizations that rose and fell over thousands of years of galactic history. Without a list of them, the article becomes far to generalized. I agree that the new section makes for an overlong contents block, but the list improves navigation and it seems more important than the list of RPG classes... --Sentry 23:45, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
• I understand that but under a new article, say Sith Orginisations/Orginizations it would mean we could add more detail. Jasca Ducato 08:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Empathy quote

• What is the source for the lead in quote about empathy? -- SFH 16:29, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  • From The Apprentice (comic) in Star Wars Tales. So it's legit, but of unknown canonicity. --Fade 17:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Behind the Scenes

• Shortly, I'm going to integrate all that KOTOR junk into the main article since the titles that are already in the article (ie acolyte, warrior, lord, etc) are from the RPG anyway so I'm not sure why they are listed twice. QuentinGeorge 05:08, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I've been wanting to do that for a while... Its good to see it finally deleted. --Sentry 04:09, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copy Editing

"Dark side" is apparently not capitalized--thanks to JackNebullax for pointing that out--but what about concepts like Dark Side Adept (dark side Adept), Dark Side Elite (dark side Elite): are these proper nouns and should be stylized up (Dark Side Adept, Dark Side Elite), or is "dark side" here merely descriptive and "Adept" and "Elite" are the actual (proper) noun and they should be styled down (dark side Adept, dark side Elite)? Perhaps a trivial point, but an improvement drive is an improvement drive, and copy editing helps improve any text. Ulic 17:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what was wrong with what i added?

The line: -?

Master Nikolce 08:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

• I can't speak for QuentinGeorge, but I think it's just that too many quotes in a row are discouraged. One in a row is usually plenty; if there's a different subsection that's appropriate for that quote to head off, it would fit much better there, and it should be perfectly fine to add it. - Lord Hydronium 09:00, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, instead, i've found it in the dark side article. Good enough for me.

Master Nikolce 00:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

• The problem with that quote is that it is biased against the Sith. You shouldnt quote a Jedi in a Sith or Dark Side article.
  • Not at all, as a sith would be biased to their own beliefs to, the reason was due to the amount of quotes in such a small space. Jedi Dude 22:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sith (species) Homeworld

According to the new Star Wars Insider, the home planet of the Sith species is Korriban, not Ziost. I'm changing it in the article. Duke Starhopper 22:07, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• The homeworld of the Sith species is not Korriban. It is Ziost according to most primary sources.--Sentry [Talk] 06:13, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move

Why was this page moved to "Sith Order"? The article is about the Sith, not any particular organization. The term Sith, at various times, referred to a species, various empires, a sect or two, a brotherhood, and a number of other disparate organizations. This article belongs at "Sith".–Sentry^Talk 05:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

• It was moved because Jasca decided his opinion was more important than consensus. -- Darth Culator ^{(Talk)(Kills)} 05:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, it is going back to Sith until he can explain himself.–Sentry^Talk 05:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes

What was wrong with the changes I made i thought they looked better.-User:KickAssJedi

[edit] Dark Acolyte

I believe this should be added to the Sith Ranks. There is already the Sith Acolyte, but no Dark Acolyte. I believe they played a significant enough part in Star Wars to at least get mentioned.

• Well, if they have an article, they're significant. But it's not a Sith rank, it's a Dark Jedi rank. Image:DarthAb.gif _{Sith Council} ^{Sith Campaign} 11:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whats the source for this information?

"The Sith were a species of red-skinned humanoids native to Ziost and Korriban that were enslaved by exiled Dark Jedi. Prior to their discovery, the Sith were divided into a meek and lowly slave class, a skilled and intelligent engineer class, and the warlike Massassi class. Over time, the Sith interbred with the Human Dark Jedi through the practice of Sith Alchemy, and the two peoples became one."

What source(s) does it mention that the Sith and Human Dark Jedi interbred?

• Try reading the articles Sith (species), and Dark Jedi, and you'll find out. {{SUBST:User:Jasca Ducato/Sig}} 08:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Killik Sith Lord

As a note, this, I suspect, is dated wrong. The Killik Sith Lord article mentions its off by approximately 19000 years as of the Hundred Year Darkness, placing the Killik Sith Lord around 26,000 BBY, though probably earlier, as Alderaan was abandoned in roughly 30,000 BBY. --Sinre 21:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sith Names

While the article talks about the practice of adding "Darth" before Sith names, I think some general guidelines, if there are any, to Sith name creation would be useful and relevant. Thanks. mrobviousjosh 18:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding for behind the scenes

Hey I have thought of an addition to the behind the scenes part. "The Sith teachings of dominance and only the strong survive are possible references to evolution on earth." Should I add it? (65.34.164.133 00:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)King Maakel)

• Actually, I would much more strongly connect it with the philosophy of wikipedia: Friedrich Nietzsche.

[edit] Etymology of the name Sith

While doing some casual reading, I discovered a possible origin of the name "Sith". Wikipedia:Sidhe. While it may be possible that Lucas simply invented the word, I find it interesting the similarities between the hidden, mysterious Sith Order and the faerie witches of Gaelic mythology.